Tasmania United Fc Forum |
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| DISCUSSIONS > Rectangular stadium for Tasmania | ||
| Chuq | Date posted | Replies |
| After reading about ntguy's letter in this thread ( http://www.tasmaniaunited.com.au/forum/topic/view/43/ ) , I was inspired! To David Bartlett (Premier of Tasmania), Michelle O'Byrne (Minister for Sports & Recreation, Minister for Tourism) and Graeme Sturges (Minister for Infrastructure), I am writing to encourage the government to support a rectangular stadium in our state. While current venues such as York Park and Bellerive Oval are great for Australian rules and cricket, they are not ideal for sports which use a smaller, non-oval pitch. As such we are disadvantaged in attracting major events (such as Socceroos matches) as we are the only state not to have such a venue. It places Tasmania at a disadvantage both for an A-League team, but also to host matches for Australia's bid for the 2018/2022 FIFA World Cup. At the moment the South Australian government is refusing to commit to constructing a new stadium ( http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25129914-5006373,00.html ) and as such they are not going to have a suitable venue and will miss out on hosting matches - and the international attention that will bring - or even worse, scuttle the Australian bid. Tasmania can both learn from this, and take advantage of it. If Adelaide fails to be a part of Australia's bid, there is increased potential for a Tasmanian city (such as Hobart) to jump on board. The Tasmanian Government would not need to finance the entire cost of the venue - the federal government, Football Federation Australia and FIFA would contribute a significant amount. Construction would be conditional on Australia's bid being successful. Such a stadium would be required to have a minimum capacity of 40,000 people - the stadium could be downsized to 25,000-30,000 afterwards. Upgrading an existing venue such as York Park is possible but as well as the stadium not being the ideal shape, FIFA's aim in allocating World Cup hosts is to leave a legacy for the world game. A rectangular stadium is something that Tasmania may not get for a long time if we are not a World Cup match host so we should aim to make the most of this opportunity. The Glenorchy Showgrounds, Cornelian Bay or the Domain Athletics Centre are ideal locations. The additional infrastructure (transport, accommodation, etc) required would also be significantly externally funded and the boost to the economy generated by the 200,000 people who would be expected to visit Tasmania in that period would be huge. Not hosting World Cup matches would result in Tasmania being left off the map when the worlds focus is on Australia - even more so than the Olympic Games - something that we cannot afford! I had never heard of Kaiserslautern, a German city of 100,000 people, before Australia played two matches there at the 2006 World Cup, but now it is forever etched into my memory and the memory of many other Australians. If nothing else I advocate the state government to maintain contact with the FFA's World Cup bid team. Mr Bartlett, I am aware that you are personally a big supporter of the world game but hopefully you recognise that it is a huge opportunity for the whole state! Regards, [my name] Supporter of the world game in Tasmania and Australia (Socceroos, A-League and Tasmania United FC!) Add comments | 17th April 2009 | 44 |
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adminposted at 11:32PM on 4th Mar, 2009 Had been requested but it fell under the "more money" banner from the developers, so unlikely I'm afraid. Foxhawkposted at 2:08AM on 4th Mar, 2009 I was about to start a thread, however this one will do nicely :). My English clubs home stadium is Molineux. It holds 28500 and once upon a time in the standing days could see crowds over sixty thousand at matches with one end alone having over thirty thousand standing supporters. Until recently the club wanted to replace one end, add second tiers all around over the lower tiers and finally fill in the corners. However the club is now owned by a building magnate who is in Australian terms a billionaire. As a result the club has scrapped its plans and will instead be lowering the pitch so that it can not only add a second tier but also add a new lower tier. This will give a far greater seating capacity than planned and will effectively remove any need to ever build a new stadium on another piece of ground. whats is the point of what I wrote above? Foxhawkposted at 2:09AM on 4th Mar, 2009 Well I was thinking about the whole 'lowering the pitch' thing. Having looked around the internet I have found a wide range of stadiums whose lowest tier is built into the side of the ground. Either that or the pitch sits in the side of a hill and two or three stands are against the hill itself. I have included one example that certainly gets the idea across. Its called Fawcett Stadium and is a college stadium for Gridiron in the United states.
If a sunken stadium did prove to be cheaper to construct (and from what I have read they are significantly cheaper) then when a world cup match came along the seating could be expanded by adding hired temporary stands from overseas and putting them around the pitch at ground level. Even a ground beside a hill with one stand built up against the hill would be an option worth investigating for both the north and south. Start small and later expand.
Chuqposted at 3:00AM on 4th Mar, 2009 The 1000 character limit is a pain in the arse isn't it! I presume it doesn't apply to the initial post in each thread. I'm not sure what sort of temporary seating is allowed for WC stadiums. Would stands sitting on the grass be acceptable? I'm fairly sure they are strict about all-seating being required. But it is an interesting idea - there are talks (by that I mean, fellow football forum people, nothing official) of dropping a rectangular shaped portion of the MCG and putting more seats around it, just for the WC. The AFL might scoff at this.. but they installed an athletics track and removed some seats for the Commonwealth Games - this isn't that much more extreme, and is for a much bigger event! ntguyposted at 6:10AM on 4th Mar, 2009 Chuq, FIFA Recommendations and Requirements for Stadiums 2007 can be downloaded as a pdf from the link below. It makes a nice read. www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/football_stadiums_ technical_recommendations_and_requirements_en_8211.pdf All seater venues are required and venues are to be up to date facilities in their design. Temporary seating is being installed in some venues in South Africa but I don't think it would be hire it scaffolding, probably more like the the temporary seating that made Stadium Australia's capacity 110,000 for the olympic games. ntguyposted at 6:18AM on 4th Mar, 2009 Another forum you might want to look at Chuq is, http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/index.php? Look up the World Cup 2018 Bids topic then go to Australia Bid. Chuqposted at 3:01AM on 4th Mar, 2009 BTW I think you would be right at home on the www.austadiums.com forum Foxhawk! Foxhawkposted at 2:13AM on 4th Mar, 2009 My picture vanished so here it is again. Fawcett Stadium.
Foxhawkposted at 5:50AM on 4th Mar, 2009 The following picture probably better demonstrates what I am trying to describe. The stadium is initially build with seating on the bank either on each side or all around. Then further stands can be built at ground level similar to current stands. These can then be expanded further by having their corners filled in and having second tiers added. This example has bank-tiers along with a single side stand with its back to the camera. Imagine ground seating all around, with a slightly more steeper angle to the bank with seating at the ends and you would have a good stadium for Tasmania. Add the above ground stands on either side and later at the ends and you would have a stadium to suit over 20k. Put temp seating structures in the corners and it would have over 40k. Foxhawkposted at 5:54AM on 4th Mar, 2009
This example seats 21000. Dont be turned off by its condition. Its only a style example. ntguyposted at 6:59AM on 4th Mar, 2009 Great work Chuq. I came to the 200,000 figure too. Germany had 3,300,000 international visitors for the Cup and they had a Euro 2.8 billion (A$ 5.5 billion) turnaround in their tourism balance of trade. Assuming Tasmania got 4 games yielding say 5% of that size tourism benefit that would mean an injection of $275M which is the cost of a good 40,000 seat stadium. Germany had increased tourism in 2005 and 2006 also. TV viewers for the Cup totaled 26 billion. Imagine the value of Tasmania's share of that exposure. I believe it would have long lasting benefit to the state. South Africa is anticipating 3,000,000 international visitors and they anticipate that the Cup will have created 159,000 jobs. What I can't understand is that Australia's GDP is nearly 3 times that of South Africa yet we have politicians who don't see the value in building a few stadiums and they have build 5 new stadiums and greatly upgraded another 5. ntguyposted at 7:12AM on 4th Mar, 2009 Chuq, you forgot to include the best location for the stadium... the rail yards site... absolutely stupid site for a hospital but great for a venue that could include parkland around it, a 2,000 car car park under it, a light-rail station beside it and be used as an outdoor venue for bands etc if the western stand roof was also designed as a sound shell. Wonder how the Premier would respond to that. TC_CValeposted at 11:57AM on 5th Mar, 2009 Only when we have been named as host of a Worrld Cup, can we expect any Govt to take the building of a stadium that meets FIFA specifications seriously. If we do hold the World Cup I think FIFA would bring pressure on FFA & Federal Govt to ensure that every State of Australia was able to hold the matches. What sort of reaction do you expect from the general population, if a soccer mad premier announced the building of a $250 million retangular football stadium, look at the opposion to giving the Hawk's $15 mill over 5 years. We should be hounding the HCC to upgrade Nth Hobart to at least A League standard. A lot of that "Ruddy Money" out their for sporting communities. Spend $15 - 20 million on Nth Hobart and you would have a very good stadium, capable of holding Asian qualifiers & 20,000 supporters of TUFC. Fill that every home game and the shiny new stadium will come, but only then. ntguyposted at 2:16PM on 5th Mar, 2009 As I understand it we have to get on the bandwagon at the stage of bidding if we want to be included as a venue for the World Cup and we don't have to spend a penny if our bid fails. I think we have to commit before the end of this year. Having a World Cup venue is a winner all round. The economic benefit to the state of building it, reaping the tourism rewards of being a cup venue, and the private capital investment in accommodation and tourist ventures in Hobart and around the state would be more than the cost of the venue plus you have a facility to use for the next 80 years. Although most of the economic benefit does not end up in the government coffers it would be worth having intergenerational debt to have the facility built and the economic benefit to Australia of hosting the World Cup should mean the Federals will fork out a significant contribution towards its construction. ntguyposted at 2:20PM on 5th Mar, 2009 Oh, and by the way York Park cost over $20M to develop and it doesn't satisfy the AFC's requirements for an ACL venue and it is way short of satisfying their Asian Cup and World Cup Qualifier requirements. Tas_U_1posted at 11:55PM on 9th Mar, 2009 I think if we are to get a rectangular stadium with the sort of capacity needed, it would have to be used on a regular basis. A-League fills the summer. If we could encourage the NRL to set-up, we could have all year round useage. The NRL don't require huge crowds to be happy. Check crowd figures for the NRL teams, We can generate tourists from NRL supporters in winter & A-League supporters in summer, the value of such stadia becomes more of a reality and the Tasmanian Government should pre-emp falls in the employment rate & level these out by creating the jobs needed to build & work the new stadium. Also apart from A-LEAGUE, Socceroos & Asian Cup Qualifiers, a good rectangular stadium could help gain oversea's clubs pre-season tour matches. Imagine the publicity the state could recieve if Mr Morton could help us get a Manchester United vs Tasmania United friendly one day. ntguyposted at 1:03AM on 10th Mar, 2009 Don't forget Joey's games, Young Socceroos games, Olympic Qualifiers, Matilda's games, Young Matilda's games, the new U17 National Women's Team and the possibility of hosting Asian Youth Championships for the different ages together with Aurora Stadium. kiallrposted at 4:34AM on 10th Mar, 2009 I can't see Tassie ever getting an NRL side, but I see possibility in the idea that the Storm could play 2 times a year in Tassie. Add to this the real possibility that Victoria could also be hosts of the 5th Super Rugby franchise, and there is another 1 or 2 potential matches a year for the stadium. So, between A-league, various other soccer games mentioned, NRL and Super Rugby I think the stadium has the pitential to be used frequently enough to pay for itself. Let's not forget events like open air concerts also. So there are options, if the government is pro-active, to prevent the venue from becoming a white elephant during winter. Chuqposted at 5:49AM on 10th Mar, 2009 Good point. Don't forget than York Park is only filled more than half capacity about 4 times a year and no-one calls it a white elephant. Assuming a 33 round season, half of those being home games, and those games being 50/50 between two venues, each venue would get on average 8 games a season each, before you include pre-season matches, W-League, youth league, visiting NRL teams, visiting S14 teams, minor national team matches (youth, womens), and all the others that have already been mentioned. galacticaposted at 11:57AM on 16th Apr, 2009 part 1 Personally I don’t believe the requirements for lights is a hard and fast rule, set in stone, call it what we like as a necessity for a stadium to be able to host A League matches. Yes that may well be the guideline conditions in the FFA articles of association But nothing in this life is permanently non negotiable and there is every reason to believe that because the competition is a summer roster, there is room to be flexible on this matter in the interim, for games at the NHO until this ground is redeveloped, or a new site is created elsewhere. I am certain that a franchise consortium with HCC, state and fed govt backing can provide negotiated assurances to overcome this after an initial period and I am sure that the FFA would be flexible providing the contract is specific. galacticaposted at 12:00PM on 16th Apr, 2009 part 2 Furthermore it may well be that lights will already be in place because the local OZ Rules footy team are in negotiated preparations to present suggestions for some NHO upgrades and I understand that includes lights, enclosing the terrace and creating corporate facilities, ground sub surface maintenance and maybe bucket seating installation. Whilst all this may not eventuate depending on ground rationalisation circumstances I will reiterate again that whilst lights are the ideal they are not essential initially to rostering A League matches in the capital. As well as this lights being installed at Bellerive Oval which will involve negotiations between the TCA, TUFC and FFA and can also suffice in the interim. So this is the state of play and we must learn to crawl before we walk, let alone run. Chuqposted at 11:40PM on 11th Mar, 2009
ntguyposted at 3:40AM on 12th Mar, 2009 Considering York Park as a World Cup venue is an absolute joke. To upgrade it to 44,000 capacity would create a white elephant in Launceston and to do it they would have to throw away nearly everything that is already there. It would be significantly cheaper to start with a greenfield site because of the soils in Invermay. If you start with a greenfield site then obviously it needs to be in Hobart. I am increasingly convinced that Mr Buckley is out of his depth with this World Cup thing. Either he doesn't know what he is talking about with regard to what is required for a World Cup venue or the reporters don't know.
Chuqposted at 12:02AM on 13th Mar, 2009 As much as I hate to say it, a 40k York Park has less chance of becoming a white elephant than a 40k rectangular stadium. It can host all the rectangular sports plus oval ones. A stadium doesn't need to be constantly sold out to be worthwhile, and I have no doubt that AFL matches here could draw 25k-30k, which is respectable given the size of the venue. Having said that - I'm making the (likely incorrect) assumption that given York Park and a rect. venue of identical capacities, they would have equal chance of getting a rectangular field based event. ntguyposted at 5:31AM on 12th Mar, 2009 Chuq, I can see the headlines in the paper now... "Bartlett Government decides to leave Tasmania off the map". I really think they will get caned if they decide to let the rest of Australia be in the bid but they sty out of it. They might try to blame the bid team for rejecting Aurora as a venue but that would just be passing the buck. Suggesting Aurora is an insult to the bid team and to FIFA. Foxhawkposted at 11:48PM on 12th Mar, 2009 The biggest danger is our current government representatives (of all parties) taking up a 'She will be right. It's a problem for another government in ten years. We will be out of politics by then'. This would be a disaster if that happened. The government needs too look at a longterm goal of creating two facilities, one in the north and another in the south. Spreading out the construction time through staged building will minimise the cost. We should look at one of the overseas designs of around 10k for Launceston. Built initially with only wings and expandable to 40k. For Hobart we should look at cheaper, though still high quality, sunken earth designs with a final size of 40k +, initially built with 10 - 20k quantity. Foxhawkposted at 11:50PM on 12th Mar, 2009 Closer to the bid being accepted we can look at obtaining funds from the Government to upgrade both, Launceston to 20k and Hobart to 40k. Australia will probably not get the 2018 world cup. In my opinion this will actually work out in the best interest of Australia although a lot of people will sook about it. As the A-League grows in stature we will hopefully see future governments put more towards investments in infrastructure. TC_CValeposted at 1:59AM on 13th Mar, 2009 Great to look at the future in regard to a stadium in Tassie, but if you think we need two (2) one in each area, you are just kidding yourselves. Regardless of Australia gaining the FIFA world cup, Tasmania needs only one stadium. Tassie would hold a maximum of two or three games if a WC was held in Oz. The TUFC taskforce has enough problems at the moment getting us an A League licence, yet the only talk at the moment is about a stadium for a team that does not exsist yet, or for an event that has yet to be awarded, and worse we can't agree on where to play our home games. The taskforce has stated that it's prefered venue is Nth Hobart, which is the best venue presently available, so lets give that our support for the moment, worry about the WC when it is announced that we will be holding that event, which is at best 10 years but probably 14 years away. galacticaposted at 8:22AM on 13th Mar, 2009 It doesn't hurt of course to throw all the ideas around and see what can snowball from them. Also there is the need to ensure that these ideas are out there in the governments' faces - local, state and federal so that there is a developed receptiveness to creating the right facilities. It is surprising just how little some of these representatives know about the world game and the potential impact on localities. Whilst we need to get the franchise into the A League, forward planning is essential by public corporations and I am hopefull that the HCC does not lie down on this. York Park is the stated home ground (by the state government)for AFL but A League is another matter. The potential world cup benefits are stupendous if the HCC does the correct thing. Not only that, in the interim undertaking a progressive upgrade of NHO could be a positive assistance, as the state attempts to fight of the global downturn and reverse its impacts here. ntguyposted at 12:43PM on 13th Mar, 2009 I have been thinking long and hard about this issue and much as I hate to say it I believe that the only option for Hobart in the interim is a very minor upgrade to NHO. The longer term and possible World Cup solution is to build a multipurpose stadium in Hobart that can house both Tassie's AFL and A-League teams. Launceston would continue to get its 4 AFL games a year and also a similar number of A-League games a year. This would justify the money already spent in Launceston. The remainder would be played at Hobart Stadium. In my opinion the cost of a greenfield stadium in Hobart will be appreciably less than upgrading York Park which is built on marine silts. I am currently drawing up a compromise design for Hobart and when I am finished I will try to load an image on here just for interest and maybe some feed back. unkoposted at 1:27AM on 15th Mar, 2009 Guys I cant help but think that both york park and nth Hobart should be left out and we should look at the old tca ground on the domain . There is ample room down behind it to develop onto. The main point on which we all seem to agree is that it is possible to have this facility and give it good patronage ie super 14s , NRL, various football games and even tennis which is also just across the road and of course concerts. We should never give up on dreams like these and should apply pressure to local members , both federal and state, write constant letters to the media. I am curious Chug did you get a reply to your letter? ntguyposted at 4:44AM on 15th Mar, 2009 How would the Hobart populace react to a 17,000 seat venue on the top of the Domain? Chuqposted at 10:55AM on 16th Mar, 2009 Hi Unko, no nothing useful. Sturges office (who I sent to as he is minister for infrastructure) said they forwarded my email to O'Byrne's office (they seemed to not notice that I sent it there as well), and O'Byrne's sent me a "thanks for your email" auto-response.
TC_CValeposted at 12:11PM on 15th Mar, 2009 Unko is on the money, the best spot to delevop a stadium is the Domain, TCA ground would be great, but not sure how the Hobart Football Club would take it and I think they may still play cricket there in summer. The Cross Roads below the Athletic Centre would be another choice. The majority of people in Hobart would welcome a 25000 seat stadium, on the condition that the venue was not solely a football venue. Get Football Tasmania on board, I think they would love to be able to offer a venue to FFA for Socceroo's games against the minor teams in Asian Qualifiers, and no mention in this thead about Australia holding 2015 Asian Cup, we are the only bid in at the moment and no more bids are likely, being seen by FFA as a dress rehersal for the World Cup. ntguyposted at 2:12PM on 15th Mar, 2009 2015 Asian Cup is a good point. The more uses the better. I still reckon a purpose built stadium at the railyards is the best site. I cannot see how anyone in their right mind would have suggested it as a suitable site for a hospital. All around the world sites like this are being returned to the people. Can't you image finishing work late on a Friday afternoon, picking up some fish and chips at Mures and then strolling down to watch an A-League game or catching up with the missus and mosying on down to an Elton John concert with another 20,000 people. Foxhawkposted at 6:22AM on 16th Mar, 2009 The reason a hospital is being put their is because Tasmania is run by Tasmanians. Sadly our state is lacking in good leadership in all areas of government. Local, State and in both sides. We just received 40k towards the bid, however thats a pittance compared to what the other code will receive for a few matches a year. Foxhawkposted at 6:27AM on 16th Mar, 2009 In regard to the 'we are too small' comments. For goodness sake we have half a million people. Tasmania's problem is that the people are too small minded in their mentality. Embarrased to try in case we all fail and face a few 'those stupid two-headed tasmanians' jokes. I have been through England a lot. I have no doubt that Tasmania will eventually have a rectangular stadium in both Hobart and Launceston and that one day smaller stadiums will also be available for matches in the north west. I am not talking the immediate future. It will take a long time. However there is no reason why a Tasmanian based NRL and A-League side won't be ground sharing two grounds in the state and playing alternate home venues. Tasmania is a little bigger than a classroom. It is a pity that it takes people from other states who visit and stay on to realise the never-realised potential. Chuqposted at 4:48AM on 16th Apr, 2009 For those who are interested, I did receive a reply from Michelle O'Byrne's office. "Thank you for your email of 4 March 2009, expressing your views on developing a rectangular stadium to support a Tasmanian A-League football team and nominating three possible locations. An odd reply considering that I only vaguely mentioned the A-League bid in my letter and most of it concentrated on the lack of a suitable World Cup venue. It reads like a reply to a letter asking for more soccer grounds for kids to play on, rather than a major piece of state infrastructure. In typical government bureaucratic fashion, the letter was typed on a computer, printed out, date stamped, scanned, and then emailed to me as an attachment to an email. It could only have been more inefficient if they copied the file onto a floppy disk and posted it to me!
Foxhawkposted at 7:14AM on 16th Apr, 2009 I actually thought it sounded ok. They probably get a million letters a day so to reference what you wrote and then actually take the conclusion of tying it into our A-League bid is a good sign. I think a negative response would have been a "Thank you for writing your views to the State Government. We take all letters addressed seriously and we will endeavour to give your request the highest regard" letter. (The BS response letter). So a good result I think. tranmere_overseasposted at 11:43PM on 16th Apr, 2009 Good letter, I am going to do likewise and aybe if we can get enough people to do the same someone might take a bit of notice. Maybe not - but it cant hurt! Chuqposted at 2:54AM on 17th Apr, 2009 The problem is that unless they are doing something already, it may be too late. York Park has already been mentioned in news articles about the bid so it seems they have already made their decision. ntguyposted at 10:16AM on 17th Apr, 2009 I think they have put forward York Park to the FFA. If they have it means they have either no idea of what is needed for a World Cup venue or they just put it forward as a token so when it was rejected they could blame someone else for Tasmania being overlooked. I intend to write a formal letter to the Premier and the Minister for Sport briefly summarising the FIFA requirements for a venue, saying we don't have anything that can be upgraded to meet that standard and asking them to commit to the development of a stadium so Tasmania is not left of the map. |
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Chuq
posted at 12:14AM on 4th Mar, 2009
It goes without saying, my email actually had paragraph breaks :P
admin, is an "edit post" function coming soon at all? :-/
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